Talk:Elder Wand
This article is faulty. Voldemort doesn't die due to the elder wand protecting Harry and reflecting the spell back, he dies as Harry died protecting Hogwarts school. It is the same kind of situation that protected Harry when Voldemort tried to kill Harry the first time (when Lily dies for Harry). However, when this occured Voldemort was not killed as he had the Horcruxes protecting him and keeping him alive. The next time this event occurs (battle of Hogwarts) Voldemort has no Horcruxes protecting him and thus, as Harry died for Hogwarts,the spell is reflected and Voldemort dies. I know this wasn't put very well but this is the gist of it. N.B- I always wondered how Dumbledore won the wand of Grindewald in the first place. If it happened in a duel which is stated in the books, then how did he beat Grindewald as Grindewald had the Elder wand and therefore would have won every duel?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 79.72.216.99 (talk • ) }| }|}}. :First, the Elder Wand did not recognize Voldemort as its master, it knew Harry was its true master. If you will read the duel sequence again, you'll see a line that says something like "flying towards the master it would not kill". The fact that Harry was willing to die for Hogwarts is irrelevant, related to something totally different, namely that none of Voldemort's curses would bind on the students and teachers of Hogwarts because he (Harry) had died to protect them. Second, the incidences of the spell reflection in the Harry/Voldy duel and the murder and attempted murder of Lily and Baby Harry are different in that the one thing protecting Harry as a baby was his mother's love, a.k.a. "deep magic". We have no evidence that this deep magic acted in the same way when Harry sacrificed himself, and even then, if it did, Harry should have died and someone else (e.g. Neville) should have reflected the spell. That's the way the magic works: someone dies for someone else, the murderer goes for the someone else, and is killed because of the earlier sacrifice. And we only know this to work for family. On the other hand, we are certain that, having won the Elder Wand from Draco Malfoy (note that all those instances since Grindelwald when the Wand changes hands are technicalities), Harry was protected by it in the sense that it would never attempt to harm or kill him - hence the ineffectiveness of the Cruciatus Curse Voldy used on him. Third, the belief that the Elder Wand would grant the possessor total invulnerability is just that - a belief and a myth. The fact is that the Wand is so tremendously powerful that in the right hands, it will definitely serve to protect the owner from all manner of attack. Yet we know that Dumbledore and Grindelwald were equals, and even that Grindelwald was frightened by the prospect of being attacked by Dumbledore. Since magic and wizardry is so heavily influenced by psychology, it could be that the Wand sensed Grindelwald's fear, and failed to act as it should have during that climactic duel. Or it could simply be that Dumbledore was more powerful, and thus won the duel by sheer skill and talent. [[User:Chosen One|'The' Chosen One]] (Choose me!) 12:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC) I believe that Voldemort died because of both the facts that Harry was the true master of the Elder Wand and the fact that Harry willingly sacrificed himself for the good of the others. There is a line when these two circle each other in the Great Hall that goes like this: "If it's not love that will save you this time, sail Voldemort, you must believe that you have magic that I do not, or else a weapon more powerful than mine? -I believe both, said Harry". The magic that Voldemort doesn't have is the power of sacrifice and the weapon is the Elder wand, or at least, that is what I think. Perhaps this quote would be useful in the actual article.--Ohmbun 16:21, 20 June 2009 (UTC) I noticed a few spelling errors in this and fixed them. KellyLeighC 15:25, 5 September 2007 (UTC) "In general wizards seem to eschew elder wands, favoring wands made from various other woods" Isn't it that "the wand chooses the wizard - therefore you cannot relly avoid elder wands? --Malhelo 21:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC) :2 possible scenarios: 1. wandmakers don't use elder wood due to the superstition ( I expect they don't use yew either anymore) 2. whop says only one wand can choose a wizard? in other words, wizards only buy non-elder wands. --Sstabeler 18:36, 29 September 2007 (UTC) ::In the case of the wand belonging to Antioch, "Elder" means "oldest" or "most senior." However I think that what Ron is referring to in "Wand of elder, never prosper" is a wand made of wood from the''' Elder tree'. It's a type of tree. Judas, from the New Testament, is thought to have hanged himself from an Elder tree and in the Middle Ages people had superstition about that type of tree because of that. That superstition is probably the reasoning behind that phrase. I don't believe that Willow is in the same family as Elder.Mafalda Hopkirk 19:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC) plot hole Grindelwald stole the wand right? so it shouldn't be his but should remain Gregorovitch's. and voldemort killed Gregorovitch so it should be his. so basically voldemort should have won. does anyone here have an explanation for that? it just really bugs me. - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darth Admony (talk • ) }| }|}}. :Please sign your name on all talk pages. As to your question - the Elder Wand, like other wands, doesn't transfer its allegiance by the death alone. Grindelwald stole the wand, in effect beating Gregorvitch (albeit sneakily). It's the same principal as Draco become master of the wand after simply disarming Dumbledore. - [[User:Cavalier One|'Cavalier One']]([[User talk:Cavalier One|''Wizarding Wireless Network]]) 21:00, 5 December 2007 (UTC) ::But then that leads to yet another plot hole, doesn't it? I mean, if Grindelwald was the true master of the Elder Wand and used it in his duel with Dumbledore in 1945, shouldn't Grindelwald have won? If the Elder Wand is unbeatable in a duel when used by its true master, how could Grindelwald have lost to Dumbledore? I've been looking all over for a Rowling quote or something in the books to explain this loophole, and I've found nothing. 23:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC) Steven117 :::The Elder Wand does not give its owner invulnerability. Note the way that the Elder Wand's allegiance changes - its current master must be defeated (commonly by murder or stealth). Also, remember the number of people who are said to have wielded the Elder Wand - they must have lost the wand sometime in their lives for the Wand's power to remain intact.John of Gaunt 11:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC) I agree with john and cavalier. the elder wand doesn't give you 100% chance of defeating someone. You have to have skill. The elder wand would only grant you power beyond any other wand. The Elder Wand isn't invincible. According to Dumbledore's theory, the Peverell brothers were very talented wizards who invented very powerful items, and the fact that they actually tricked and defetead Death itself it's just a legend grown around the Deathly Hallows. So the fact that the Elder Wand is indeed very powerful does not mean it is down right unbeatable.--Ohmbun 16:33, 20 June 2009 (UTC) Wand Core The article states that Thestral hair was used in the wand core, but where was this stated? It was never mentioned in the books and I don't recall it ever being mentioned in an interview. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.31.83.63 (talk • ) }| }|}}. :JK Rowling's official website - here is the page link. - [[User:Cavalier One|'Cavalier One']](''Wizarding Wireless Network'') 23:09, 9 February 2008 (UTC) :That must be supplemental information given by Rowling on the internet.John of Gaunt 11:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC) Harry's mastery of the elder wand So, at the end of the book, Harry says that if he doesn't get killed, the EW's power will die when he dies a natural death. But doesn't all someone have to do is Disarm him? Come to think of it, did Harry really become the master of the EW at the Malfoy Manner? The EW was in the tomb at that time. How did the EW "know" what was going on at the Manor. I think it may have only switched sides when it "saw" that Harry was using Malfoy's wand much later - which had been previously used to disarm Dumbledore. Therefore, it associated Harry with Malfoy's wand. Anyone else see this? MisterRandom2 15:23, 12 June 2009 (UTC) the elder wand would know what happened because draco had the wand's allegiance. when harry disarmed him, he had the wands allegiance. THE WAND DOESN'T NEED TO SEE THEIR MASTER DISARMED! THIS IS MAGIC!! --SEATTLE♥WIZARD 03:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC) Dude, there's no need to shout. MisterRandom2 16:06, 20 June 2009 (UTC) I think that a wand wouldn't change allegiance unless the battle were for real. As you remember there was plenty of dissarming in the Room of Requirement without any of them mentioning that their wands stopped listening to them. In a real life duel, when the wand carriers are most concentrated and at the top of their skills, then is when a defeated wand may choose another master. So I believe it is out of the question that Harry would lose the mastering of the Elder Wand accidentally, and as far as losing it in a battle..well, Voldemort himself couldn't defeat him so that has to count for something.--Ohmbun 16:28, 20 June 2009 (UTC) So, if I understand this correctly, Harry was the True Master of the Elder Wand after he stole Draco’s wand. The reason why the Killing Curse from the Elder Wand didn’t rebound on Voldemort in the forest was because Harry didn’t intend to fight back - just like Dumbledore planned his death with Snape. However, because Voldemort took Harry’s blood, the only part of Harry that was destroyed was fragment of Voldemort’s soul. After Harry woke up, he intended to keep himself alive, thus the Killing Curse rebounded on the Voldemort the second time around. Had the Curse rebounded on Voldemort in the forest, Voldemort would not have been destroyed because he still had two Horcruxes left. The question now is after 19 years, is Harry still the master of the EW? -- MisterRandom2 17:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC) As far as we know, yes! "All was well".--Ohmbun 18:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC) MarceFénix In the last book J.K. Rowling saids that Harry was the Master of the Elder wand, and then he repared his wand of holly and Phoenix Core, so than means that you can be the master of not only one wand? Thanks if you Answer me. FenixRiver 16:36, November 28, 2009 (UTC) Mastery vs. Possession Since this has been nominated for Featured Article. Anyone editing this page: Mastery of the Wand does not require possession and possession does NOT mean you are the wands master. --Hcoknhoj 21:50, January 10, 2010 (UTC) Thestral Hair Where is it stated the Elder Wand had a Thestral hair core?--[[User:Lord Voldemort killed the vampire James|''L.V.K.T.V.J.']] ([[User talk:Lord Voldemort killed the vampire James|''Send an owl!]]) 18:38, February 7, 2010 (UTC) On JKR´s homepage.--Rodolphus 18:41, February 7, 2010 (UTC) Killing the user Ok, so in the book it says that the Elder Wand is passed on by killing the previous owner. Neither Dumbledore, Draco, or Harry killed its previous owner. But then how did they gain control of the wand? Or is that just the legend created about the Death;y Hallows?--Qim1 22:20, March 19, 2010 (UTC) :They had to defeat the previous owner. It wasn't necessary to kill them. In each of their cases, the previous owner was either overpowered or disarmed. 22:29, March 19, 2010 (UTC)